Create new item type from existing item type

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[Deleted User]
[Deleted User] Posts: 5
edited September 2016 in
When creating a new item type; it would be useful if I could take an existing item type and derive from it. This saves a lot of effort if there are a number of existing custom fields that I want to duplicate in the new item type.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2015
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    yes!!!! i agree.
    not a big deal for some items, but a huge deal if i have items with >40 fields.
    being able to map fields between item types for use in "Convert to" is also a much needed feature.
  • Ryan Dill
    Ryan Dill Member Posts: 57
    edited December 2015
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    Definitely agree on the desire to be able to derive from an existing type. While we're trying hard to align our different product groups on a common set of shared item types, occasionally there are customizations one group requires that preclude using the standard item type, so we have to "clone" the existing item type and make a subset of customizations to the clone.

    Since there's not currently an easy way to do this, we end up manually creating the cloned item type from scratch, manually comparing the old with the new to duplicate the "common" fields between the two types (and invariably leaving something out).
    Ryan Dill
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 911
    edited June 2016
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    Thanks for the post and feedback. I agree that it would be way easier on the admin if there were a way to create item types that doesn't involve a lot of repetitive work.
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    Plus one agree. :)
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 64
    edited October 2015
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    Plus one from me too (as I've just had to create 3 items types which are almost the same as an existing type).

    When manually deriving from an existing item type there are a few aspects to get right (assuming you're after consistency across the items):
    1. Which widgets to select
    2. Which fields to include
    3. Remembering to reuse "Unique Field Name" and not define new ones as I did :o(
    4. Placing the Fields in the right order
    5. Getting the four flags (Read Only, Required etc) consistence
    With the exception of #1 above the others scale with the number of fields in an item.  
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited September 2016
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    "Remembering to reuse "Unique Field Name" and not define new ones as I did".

    My cross to bear for the day. I didn't realise that conversions rely on the "Unique Field Name" being the same on both sides of the convert. Guess you stood on that landmine as well. :)

    The main reason I create multiple versions of the same item is to create decomposition hierarchy in my projects. This would be negated by the ability to re-use an item type with a unique identifier and perhaps a unique name.

    For example I'd like to have an item type called say "Requirements" at levels 1,2 and 3 in a project with rules connecting the three levels uniquely, but the same item type used for the fields.

    Perhaps something like:

    Prototype= Requirements
    Instances = Requirements Level 1, Requirements Level 2, Requirements Level 3 (all of type requirements, but with separate names and treated as separate instances which each can have their own relationship rules).

    If that makes sense... :)
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 64
    edited October 2015
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    Hi Grant,
    Yes, that landmine went off when I tried to convert too. So hand to fix up my new item types.

    We too have a requirement hierarchy. Previously we just used the Requirement type & differentiated on hierarchical level by where the requirement existed in the project tree.

    However, we can't filter on location across projects (maybe this could be addressed) so we took the decision to make distinct item type, which works rather well. 
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    George, that's exactly the strategy we've adopted and it's working well too. Takes a while to figure that one out!

    Unfortunately, converts are frequent and we've somehow got the internal names different. I'm hoping there's an easy solution which doesn't involve export/import! :)
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 64
    edited October 2015
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    Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a way to edit/update the "Unique Field Name" for a field.

    As the new item types for me weren't in use, I deleted the field & re-added with the correct "Unique Field Name".
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    Agreed. I've got thousands of items across many projects with the wrong "Unique Field Name". Can't re-create. Not feasible to roundtrip 'em due to the diverse spread of locations.

    Anyone got any ideas?
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2015
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    Not a great solution, but you could add the new field with the correct unique field name, then write a simple script to go in via SOAP and copy all of the old values to the new field. If items are locked it gets a little more tricky, especially if they are locked due to workflow state. Once the copy is done, you delete the old field.
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    That's a good idea Tom! I'd need to get my support team to do that for me. Any ideas for admin-level type things that could be done?
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2015
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    Nothing that i know of, at least nothing that you haven't already mentioned. SOAP is the way to go. How many projects and item types do you have to update? I have a excel SOAP connector which might be useful for you if your IT dept. would allow you to use it. It can pull all items of a given type from a given project and allow you to edit fields and save back to Jama. I find it a bit more useful than export/import flow, but still isn't practical for 10s-100s of item sets across projects.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 64
    edited October 2015
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    If you're feeling uber brave, you could edit the database directly but this has the most potential to go completely pear shaped!

    This should only be considered under consultation from Jama directly. 

    For educational purposes only...
    • Item types look to be defined in the [documenttype] table
    • The fields for an item type are defined in the [documenttypefielddefinition] table
    • Across item types you'd want the fields [documenttypefielddefinition].documentFieldId to match
    But simply changing documentFieldId may (probably would) have unforeseen side effects.
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    Thanks guys! Great guidance! We're talking thousands of items across tens to hundreds of projects. It's five fields in one particular commonly used item type that are adrift with the wrong "unique field name".

    I think I'll have to pull my support team together to fix this one!

    Thanks very much!
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 161
    edited September 2016
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    @George,

    On an un-related topic, I always enjoy reading your response because of your direct knowledge with the Jama database schema. Today I also learned something new from you. I looked up the definition of "pear-shaped." Perhaps I should try that with my DJI Phantom Advanced quadcopter camera drone :-)

    "pear shaped" The third meaning is mostly limited to the United KingdomIreland and Australasia. It describes a situation that went awry, perhaps horribly wrong. A failed bank robbery, for example, could be said to have "gone pear-shaped". The origin for this use of the term is in dispute. The OED cites its origin as within the Royal Air Force; as of 2003 the earliest citation there is a quote in the 1983 book Air War South Atlantic.[1] Others date it to the RAF in the 1940s, from pilots attempting to perform aerial manoeuvres such as loops. These are difficult to form perfectly, and are usually noticeably distorted—i.e., pear-shaped.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 64
    edited October 2015
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    I'm my industry if you fail to write concentric servo tracks on hard drive media they can really end up pear shaped!!

    I also like the expression "horribly wrong". Can anything go "nicely wrong"?

    Swoo, congratulations on your 100th Reply Like.
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    See also "tits up" and "wheels off".

    The British folks do love their expressions... :)

    I once started an email to some German colleagues "Chaps...", which is a term of friendship and endearment in Britain. Unfortunately, chaps literally means crotchless leather trousers if translated 1:1. Needless to say I had to explain this to HR.... :)

    /G
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 161
    edited September 2016
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    @Grant, thanks for sharing. As a Chinese-American living in US and with English my second language, I'm continuously amazed and delighted by the various English expressions spoken in US and England :-)

    @George, thanks for congrats. By the way, I define "nicely wrong": flying my drone high speed into a tree without damaging my drone and no one else watching at the parking lot. "Horribly wrong": crashing my drone into a metal door and landed upside down and damaging one propeller (which is a no big-deal $3 part replacement) but in front of 50 people at the start of a marathon training run. I said to myself, "oh bloody hell." Okay, not in those words, but I don't want @Kristina having to delete this post for inappropriate language :-)
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 911
    edited June 2016
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    Hahaha. This post is going nowhere, under any circumstances :P
    @Tom, thanks for sharing that idea via SOAP—it seems the safest, as @George points out, directly manipulating the database could have unforeseen consequences (I certainly couldn't tell you offhand what might happen).

    But seriously, this thread gave me such a laugh when I read through my notifications this morning! Having it all devolve to calling your colleagues crotchless leather pants made my morning. (And funny about the "chaps" thing, though—in the U.S. both definitions are definitely well-known, as we hear British folk calling each other "chaps" on TV, but we also have a micro motorcycle economy driven by the sales of leather gear!)
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 161
    edited September 2016
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    Most of time we all strive to be professional and courteous but I also believe a little humor goes a long way to make it fun to work with Jama. Here it goes. The first time I use the word Jama and fun in the same sentence after close to 300 posts. Lol.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 911
    edited June 2016
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    Ha!
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    @Swoo, it's a different league of bizarre expressions up here in Scotland (you can ask @Adrian, he's been exposed to it a LOT over the past couple of years). But that's a discussion for us all to have over a whisky sometime... :)
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 161
    edited September 2016
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    @Grant, Scotland is on my bucketlist to visit. I had thought that the quickest way for me to accidentally insult a Scotland citizen is to have a whiskey rather than a scotch. I just Goggled to confirm... :-) 

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/30278/what%E2%80%99s-difference-between-scotch-whiskey-and-bourbon

    The main difference between scotch and whisky is geographic, but also ingredients and spellings. Scotch is whisky made in Scotland, while bourbon is whiskey made in the U.S.A, generally Kentucky. Scotch is made mostly from malted barley, while bourbon is distilled from corn. If you’re in England and ask for a whisky, you’ll get Scotch. But in Ireland, you’ll get Irish whiskey (yep, they spell it differently for a little colour).

    @Kristina, please accept my sincere apology for us taking this thread to a place that you cannot easily classify as question, idea, or bug...Oh well. :-)

    Seriously, somehow I forgot to respond to this thread. I totally understand and support Matt's original request of having a utility to clone an item type and then can make modification. Our IT department actually has such a utility. This probably goes into the same category as the set of reports that I like Jama to consider adopting and supporting them. You might ask my company Jama rep to negotiate with my company IT rep. Probably not in time for Matt's needs but perhaps will be valuable for future org admin's.

    swoo
  • Mike Donlon
    Mike Donlon Member Posts: 16
    edited July 2015
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    I'd also like to have Jama consider adding REST calls (available to Org Admin only of course) for managing the item types (POST new item types (default fields), POST new fields given a type ID, PUT modifications to existing fields given a type ID, and having a way to set the order of the fields (maybe with the PUT of the field of a type or with the PUT for a type)).  Since we have multiple instances of Jama where we need to keep the item types aligned, having something like this would make it so much easier while also much less error prone than what we are doing today!

    (The SOAP calls addLookup and updateLookup have been absolutely wonderful in this regard!)
    This is my signature; I hope you like it.
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited September 2016
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    Hi Mike,

    I'm curious. Why multiple instances of Jama? :)

    Cheers,
    Grant
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 161
    edited September 2016
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    Hi Grant,

    Mike and I work at the same large company. Without providing any confidential materials I can say that

    1) one reason is that different groups within the same company adopted Jama at different times. So Jama was brought up on different servers.

    2) In addition to #1 and also for mitigating possible performance delay when the server is located at one part of the world and the users is located at another part of the world, if the servers are located in the same geo, then the response time could be shorter

    Of course, there are many downsides regarding having multiple servers, including load balancing, license balancing, item types and picklists alignment, software upgrade, back-up, etc. It's basically an org admin's worst nightmare and job security :-)

    With regard the possible longterm server and database strategy you might have to contact Jama to get official words. I'm sure that I'm not able to say anything in a public forum :-)

    swoo
  • GrantMore
    GrantMore Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 32
    edited April 2016
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    Hi Swoo,

    Got it. That must be a nightmare to keep in sync. I can see why Mike needs the functionality!

    FWIW, I've never had an issue with geographic location of the server, even with intensive, remote use by large teams. Have you?

    Cheers,
    Grant
    Grant More
    Systems Engineering Specialist
    More Consulting Ltd.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 161
    edited September 2016
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    Hi Grant, I'm glad that your remote users have better experience. We almost always have intermittent performance instabilities. Some of that are due to software upgrade, user errors, data size, and just the fact that electrons still take time to go half way around the world :-) swoo
  • Mike Donlon
    Mike Donlon Member Posts: 16
    edited July 2015
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    Hi Grant (and others),

    Wanted to add to Stephen's comments, hopefully to give additional insight:

    We currently have 7 distinct Jama instances (database plus web front end); each instance has a unique set of data on it (that is, we are not synchronizing all data across each instance).  We do share portions of the data across instances, but not all of it.  Today, four of the instances each have active document records numbering in the several millions (if combined into a single instance, this would be in the 10 - 20 million range, which does not take into account the support records such as versions, activity log, baselines, test plans, test cycles, and many other types of content).  We discovered in earlier versions of Jama that having a large number of records on one instance, along with the associated user interactions and automation tools, would degrade the user experience to a point that was untenable.  As well, whenever re-indexing an instance with a large number of records, the required time to complete the re-index was longer than the available non-work hours (since we are a global company, we have to consider those cultures where Sunday is a normal work day), which impacts business.  So that was one reason for separating into multiple instances.

    I should note that more recent releases of Jama have improved the indexing performance significantly; thanks for that.

    Another reason, as Stephen mentioned, is that the user experience from some geographies was noticeably poorer than from others.  This can be mostly attributed to our own company not willing (or not able) to increase the bandwidth between certain end points.  But it can also be partially attributed to the "chattiness" of the Jama UI between web server and the client browser.  The only solution in that case was to install an instance geographically closer to the users.  Again, Jama has improved the chattiness in previous releases, but it is something that needs to be watched carefully in future releases as well.

    Two more reasons for separate instances that I will mention are 1) that we needed to isolate some of the data in an environment that can hold what we consider "Top Secret" data.  Unfortunately, the environment is such that security takes priority over performance, so it's not practical to use the same environment for all instances.  And 2) we also needed one instance that is accessible to external customers so that we can share data from within our firewall with an instance that is outside the firewall.

    As mentioned, we're not duplicating the data exactly across all instances, so it's not as impossibly difficult as it initially sounds.  But we are trying to build a catalog of reusable records (use cases, requirements, test cases, etc) that will be sync'd across most of these instances... and since the records are supposed to be of the same item type (not as useful to reuse records if each instance has different field labels or different pick list options than other instances), it is important to keep many of the item type elements (the type itself, the pick lists, the relationship types, etc) in sync.

    What I hope this highlights, for Jama in particular, is that having a way to manage Org Admin type functionality via the REST APIs would be incredibly valuable, especially Item Types, Pick Lists, Permissions (and by extension, User Groups), and Reports.

    Would love to hear from other Jama users what kind of data volume you are dealing with, just to get a reference compared to our usage.
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