SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

Lita Gribben
Lita Gribben Member, Data Exchange, Jama Connect Interchange™ (JCI) Posts: 90
edited March 13 in Peer-to-Peer Support Forum

Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

------------------------------
Lita Gribben
Blue Origin
------------------------------

Comments

  • Alessandro Valli
    Alessandro Valli Member, Data Exchange, Jama Connect Interchange™ (JCI) Posts: 789
    edited February 6

    Hi Lita,

    I have just tested this with 9.6.3 on-prem: I still can set relationships (between components via add -> related item).

    Now about your question ...

    I think it was me stressing on this issue/feature -> Relationships for Components

    • My first issue is congruency: either all containers (components, sets, folders) or none. In my case I have mostly folders: in order to somehow use SOS-DEF-5056 as "feature" I need to have it also for folders.
    • Another issue is more related to the possible semantic related to such relationships. Example 1: item to component/component to item -> does it means the relationship applies to the items contained in the component? What about moving items from/to the component ... that's to "weak" for me (better to explicitly setting the relationships between item and contained items. Example 2: component to component -> it is the case if performing a reuse with a component and setting "add a relationship from the original item". Undesired but can be tolerated. As previously said, either all container types or none.

    I try to avoid such relationships: my general strategy here is "less is more, more is specific" -> in other words: do not exaggerate with relationships. If used, then with "strong" semantic.

    I hope it helps

    ------------------------------
    Alessandro
    Systems Engineer
    SICK AG
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
    Alessandro
    Systems Engineer
    SICK AG
  • Iwan Kutter
    Iwan Kutter Member Posts: 26
    edited February 7

    Hi Lita,

    We also do not use the relationship to components because of this defect. But for your information, I created an idea some time ago to officially have a relationship to folders: Idea Details - Jama Software Community

    Note: On Version 9.7.0 cloud, we can still add a relationship to a component

    ------------------------------
    Iwan Kutter
    Requirement Engineer
    Bernina International
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
    Iwan Kutter
    Requirement Engineer
    Bernina International
  • Lita Gribben
    Lita Gribben Member, Data Exchange, Jama Connect Interchange™ (JCI) Posts: 90
    edited February 7

    Alessandro, thanks for the details! I realized my post should have been more specific. Since you mentioned the relationship works for you, I re-read your post and I believe the way you created the relationship was from Component to single item, and what stopped working for us is the other way, from an item (or items) to add the relationship TO a component, that's where we get the error "Invalid: 
    Components cannot have relationships". I just tested going into the Component to add the relationship from Component TO item, and sure enough that does work. Also, the Relationship rule configuration still allows us to configure relationships to Components. 

    We don't use this to replace individual traces, but as a placeholder prior to the decomposition, then we can compare that all our preliminary allocations (relationships to components) match the decompositions that are held inside of that component. So a sort of placeholder/guide.

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 13:07
    From: Alessandro Valli
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Hi Lita,

    I have just tested this with 9.6.3 on-prem: I still can set relationships (between components via add -> related item).

    Now about your question ...

    I think it was me stressing on this issue/feature -> Relationships for Components

    • My first issue is congruency: either all containers (components, sets, folders) or none. In my case I have mostly folders: in order to somehow use SOS-DEF-5056 as "feature" I need to have it also for folders.
    • Another issue is more related to the possible semantic related to such relationships. Example 1: item to component/component to item -> does it means the relationship applies to the items contained in the component? What about moving items from/to the component ... that's to "weak" for me (better to explicitly setting the relationships between item and contained items. Example 2: component to component -> it is the case if performing a reuse with a component and setting "add a relationship from the original item". Undesired but can be tolerated. As previously said, either all container types or none.

    I try to avoid such relationships: my general strategy here is "less is more, more is specific" -> in other words: do not exaggerate with relationships. If used, then with "strong" semantic.

    I hope it helps

    ------------------------------
    Alessandro
    Systems Engineer
    SICK AG
    ------------------------------

    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
  • Alessandro Valli
    Alessandro Valli Member, Data Exchange, Jama Connect Interchange™ (JCI) Posts: 789
    edited February 7

    HI Lita,

    you are right: just tested in 9.6.3 and 9.79.7 on-prem.

    In 9.6.3 you cannot set upstream/downstream relationships from an item (not a container) to a component via relationships widget.

    The REST API still works (POST /relationship).

    My previous test was in creating a related item and it worked both ways (item -> CMP; CMP -> item)

    Best regards,

    Alessandro



    ------------------------------
    Alessandro
    Systems Engineer
    SICK AG
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-07-2024 08:13
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Alessandro, thanks for the details! I realized my post should have been more specific. Since you mentioned the relationship works for you, I re-read your post and I believe the way you created the relationship was from Component to single item, and what stopped working for us is the other way, from an item (or items) to add the relationship TO a component, that's where we get the error "Invalid: 
    Components cannot have relationships". I just tested going into the Component to add the relationship from Component TO item, and sure enough that does work. Also, the Relationship rule configuration still allows us to configure relationships to Components. 

    We don't use this to replace individual traces, but as a placeholder prior to the decomposition, then we can compare that all our preliminary allocations (relationships to components) match the decompositions that are held inside of that component. So a sort of placeholder/guide.



    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------

    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 13:07
    From: Alessandro Valli
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Hi Lita,

    I have just tested this with 9.6.3 on-prem: I still can set relationships (between components via add -> related item).

    Now about your question ...

    I think it was me stressing on this issue/feature -> Relationships for Components

    • My first issue is congruency: either all containers (components, sets, folders) or none. In my case I have mostly folders: in order to somehow use SOS-DEF-5056 as "feature" I need to have it also for folders.
    • Another issue is more related to the possible semantic related to such relationships. Example 1: item to component/component to item -> does it means the relationship applies to the items contained in the component? What about moving items from/to the component ... that's to "weak" for me (better to explicitly setting the relationships between item and contained items. Example 2: component to component -> it is the case if performing a reuse with a component and setting "add a relationship from the original item". Undesired but can be tolerated. As previously said, either all container types or none.

    I try to avoid such relationships: my general strategy here is "less is more, more is specific" -> in other words: do not exaggerate with relationships. If used, then with "strong" semantic.

    I hope it helps



    ------------------------------
    Alessandro
    Systems Engineer
    SICK AG

    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 



    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------

    Alessandro
    Systems Engineer
    SICK AG
  • Patrick Garman
    Patrick Garman Jama Staff, Data Exchange, Automotive Solution, Medical Devices & Life Sciences Solution, Robotics Solution, Airborne Systems, Jama Connect Interchange™ (JCI), Jama Validation Kit (JVK) + Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 9
    edited February 7

    Hi Lita,

    If Components are not included in your project relationship rules, check to see if the relationship rule set allows for any item type not mentioned in this rule set to be related to any item type including those in the rule set.

    Testing in one of my sandboxes, when Components are not included in the relationship rule set and that option is not enabled, I am unable to relate components to other items. 

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Garman
    Jama Software
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
  • Lita Gribben
    Lita Gribben Member, Data Exchange, Jama Connect Interchange™ (JCI) Posts: 90
    edited February 7

    Patrick, I tested both ways on our upgraded version (9.6.3). Since we have been using relationships to components (from items), and now instead of adding the relationship (as it did in 8.79.1), it shows an error telling the user "Components cannot have relationships". The components were indeed in the rule set for my testing, and I checked the box to allow any relationship as well as part of my testing. 

    Generally, if an item type is not added to the rule set, the system will either grey out or not show that type as an option. With components being part of the rule set, they are not greyed out, and the message shown is brand new to this version. 

    From the comments above I was able to confirm I can use "Add related" from the item to create a component, but that doesn't match our use case. I can also add the relationship from the Component to an item as per the rule set. But the opposite from the item to the component prompts the error. 

    This to me seems like either a half fix, or accidental fix. I contacted our TAM about this and he's researching what happened since this was not marked for fixing.

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-07-2024 09:41
    From: Patrick Garman
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Hi Lita,

    If Components are not included in your project relationship rules, check to see if the relationship rule set allows for any item type not mentioned in this rule set to be related to any item type including those in the rule set.

    Testing in one of my sandboxes, when Components are not included in the relationship rule set and that option is not enabled, I am unable to relate components to other items. 

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Garman
    Jama Software
    ------------------------------

    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 152
    edited February 21

    As a housekeeping note, because Product discussions are being archived, this thread has been moved to Support discussions. 

    ------------------------------
    Carly Rossi // she/her/hers
    Community Program Manager // Jama Software
    Portland, OR
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-07-2024 09:58
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Patrick, I tested both ways on our upgraded version (9.6.3). Since we have been using relationships to components (from items), and now instead of adding the relationship (as it did in 8.79.1), it shows an error telling the user "Components cannot have relationships". The components were indeed in the rule set for my testing, and I checked the box to allow any relationship as well as part of my testing. 

    Generally, if an item type is not added to the rule set, the system will either grey out or not show that type as an option. With components being part of the rule set, they are not greyed out, and the message shown is brand new to this version. 

    From the comments above I was able to confirm I can use "Add related" from the item to create a component, but that doesn't match our use case. I can also add the relationship from the Component to an item as per the rule set. But the opposite from the item to the component prompts the error. 

    This to me seems like either a half fix, or accidental fix. I contacted our TAM about this and he's researching what happened since this was not marked for fixing.

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------

    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-07-2024 09:41
    From: Patrick Garman
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Hi Lita,

    If Components are not included in your project relationship rules, check to see if the relationship rule set allows for any item type not mentioned in this rule set to be related to any item type including those in the rule set.

    Testing in one of my sandboxes, when Components are not included in the relationship rule set and that option is not enabled, I am unable to relate components to other items. 

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Garman
    Jama Software

    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
  • Tim Kerby
    Tim Kerby Member, Functional Safety Kit (FSK) Posts: 14
    edited March 5

    We use them quite often with an allocated to relationship where we want to point a system requirement at the subsystems that will implement it but we havent written the downstream requirments.  This bug has been causing us a lot of issues and a timeline for resolution would be very useful

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kerby
    CEO
    Edinburgh Systems
    Edinburgh
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 

    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------
  • Chris Armstrong
    Chris Armstrong Member Posts: 1
    edited March 5

    This is an important feature that we had started to use for our project to help with the initial architecture based work i.e. this requirement is done by that thing (or those things) that would then help with the authoring of specific requirements after the architecting was complete.

    NOTE: Our relationships are configured to allow the requirement-to-component relationship - but we also get the "Components cannot have relationships" error.

    So I would like to add my voice to request a resolution to this ASAP.



    ------------------------------
    Chris Armstrong
    JFD
    ------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------
    Original Message:
    Sent: 02-06-2024 09:05
    From: Lita Gribben
    Subject: SOS-DEF-5056 relating items to components

    Question for other users: Anyone else has used relationships from items to Components regularly? 

    I am aware that this was a defect (SOS-DEF-5056) , and I checked with support last summer and they did not have it on the roadmap for a fix any time soon. It's not on any release notes either, or user guides.

    We just upgraded our Dev server from 8.79.1 to 9.6.3 (self hosted), and now we can't create these relationships to components, it actually shows a popup stating it's not allowed. Anyone else that was using relationships to components? Which alternate option worked best for you? We are evaluating traces to other items, tags, or categories, but no option is as optimal as the traces to components. 



    ------------------------------
    Lita Gribben
    Blue Origin
    ------------------------------

  • Benno Kusstatscher
    Benno Kusstatscher Member Posts: 23

    we are also using relationships down to Jama components for 10 years now. After update to 9.6.4 this is no longer possible. Old relationships are still shown, but new ones cannot be added anymore. This is breaking our well established requirements management and configuration management procedures.

    What this is used for? Two examples:
    1. Requirements are allocated down to contributing design blocks and verification disciplines, so that block designers and verification people know what requirements they have to develop block requirements and test cases for.

    2. Planning activities such as from safety plan or integration plan etc, have relationships down to the Jama component that contains the implementing work product, report etc.

    There are certainly alternative methods to get to the same result, but breaking such established schemes in the middle of multiple, on-going projects is trouble.


    Benno Kusstatscher
    Analog Devices

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